In the second part of his interview with Al-Masry Al-Youm, former Muslim Brotherhood deputy guide Mohamed Habib said the United States collaborated with the Brotherhood to overthrow the Mubarak regime, adding that Saad al-Katatni, the head of the disbanded Freedom and Justice Party, met with the ambassadors of Israel and the United States in 2007 to strike a deal. He also claims that the group used arms during the clashes at the presidential palace and the guidance bureau, and that it has always considered the Nour Party to be an agent of the security services.
Q: What is the relationship between the Muslim Brotherhood and the United States?
A: In 2005, when I was still a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, the organization received a message from the United States, stating that the White House had lost hope in the Mubarak regime, and that it plans to topple him by organizing demonstrations all over the country, which would lead to the arrest of thousands or even tens of thousands of Brotherhood members, justifying an intervention to release them.
Q: Who received that message? And is this person still around?
A: The person in question is in the United States, and he is close to the decision-making process.
Q: What else can you say about the relationship between th Brotherhood and the US?
A: After the message, a senior US official called me and said they would bring Aziz Sedki, the president of the National Association for Change, in exchange for a guarantee of respect for public freedoms, the empowerment of women, granting leadership positions to Copts and ensuring the safety and security of Israel. I answered that the Muslim Brotherhood does not seek power and does not trust the United States, as it considers it to be acting merely in defense of its own interests and that of Israel. Also, I believe in a certain protocol when it comes to dealing with states, whereby the president calls his counterpart, the members of parliament contact their counterparts and so on. The United States should not be dealing with a group like the Brotherhood without the knowledge of the regime. I believe the White House established contacts with different parties in order to put pressure on the regime.
Q: When you rejected the offer, did they contact anyone else from the group?
A: Khairat al-Shater stayed in contact with them. Also, Mahdi Akef received a message asking him to halt suicide bombings in Palestine if he intends to cooperate with the White House. However, the Americans saw that Akef was not qualified to cooperate with them because of his temperament. And when they tried with me, I told them the Brotherhood still has decades before it could assume power. So they started supporting Mohamed Badie to become the supreme guide, because he appeared eager to cooperate with them. I also heard that Saad al-Katatni, Saad al-Husseini and Hazem Farouk met with the ambassadors of the United States and Israel at the US embassy in 2007. It was shocking, because the group is officially against normalizing relations with Israel.
Q: When did Mahdi Akef withdraw?
A: When he saw that the Brotherhood would not win the parliamentary elections in 2010.
Q: Was it the ideology of the group that made it end up this way?
A: Yes, it was. They believe they are the only ones to embrace the true Islam – an idea coming from their founder, Hassan al-Banna.
Q: What is the group counting on right now?
A: It currently relies on the support of the United States, Qatar and Turkey. Otherwise, they would have no money to finance the demonstrations.
Q: At the expense of their lives?
A: Whoever stands in Rabaa Square for 47 days and refuses to listen to advice is desperate to try and cover his failures in running the country by showing how miserable he is right now.
Q: What else does the organization rely on?
A: It aims to damage the economy and tourism through terrorist operations.
Q: Do you mean to say that they are directly responsible for the terrorism in Sinai and elsewhere?
A: Yes, Beltagy himself admitted it.
Q: Has the Brotherhood always carried out terrorist operations or is that a new phenomenon?
A: It has been the case since December 5, 2012 at the presidential palace.
Q: Does this mean they have a militant unit?
A: Yes, it is headed by Mahmoud Ezzat. The organization started to carry weapons during the presidential palace and the guidance bureau clashes.
Q: What else does the organization rely on?
A: Assassinations.
Q: Who runs the group on the ground in Egypt?
A: The fraternities do. They are responsible for finances and contacts with group leaders abroad.
Q: Is there a new guidance bureau?
A: No, there isn't. Khairat al-Shater still leads the group from behind bars.
Q: Young members like Huzaifa, son of Hamza Zoba, would like to dissolve the group. Would this work?
A: No, it would not.
Q: Ahmed Mansour accused the group’s international wing of collaborating with intelligence agencies. What is your comment on that?
A: I don't believe it is true. It is Mansour who could speak about his collaboration with the US intelligence and the Al Jazeera channel, which deals with the White House.
Q: Are there no cadres within the group that would be able to modify its course?
A: No, because they have all been brought up to be blindly obedient.
Q: Are death penalties likely to deter the group?
A: I do not believe they will eventually get executed. I think they will receive penaties of 20 or 25 years of imprisonment instead. However, the group leaders will abandon their ideology, because they believe they had been sent by God to mankind.
Q: Could they take after Jordan and form a new Brotherhood in Egypt?
A: No, Egypt is different.
Q: What about the money?
A: They use it to buy people's obedience.
Q: What about the repentance declarations from prison?
A: I believe there is no such thing.
Q: Why did the Brotherhood succeeded in Morocco and Tunisia, but not in Egypt?
A: I think it is mainly due to different environments and cultures in those countries.
Q: Which is more important in Egypt, the local or the global guidance bureau?
A: The global bureau has 13 members, eight of which are from the country of the supreme guide. This means the local bureau controls all decisions at home and abroad.
Q: Successive regimes have used the Brotherhood in Egypt to eliminate their opponents. Did the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces use them to thwart the revolution?
A: They both used each other. The military council wanted a popular movement to face the revolutionary forces and the boys in Tahrir Square, and the Brotherhood neded their support to face the remnants of Mubarak’s National Democratic Party.
Q: Does the Brotherhood have its own internal courts?
A: Had there been such a thing, many mistakes would have been avoided.
Q: What is your view on the conflict between the Muslim Brotherhood and the Nour Party?
A: We have always known that the party was used by the State Security to monitor our activities.
Q: Could you provide examples?
A: I do not remember now, but they did a lot for the security services.
Q: Why are the Brotherhood members so committed, and the Salafis are not?
A: Because the Salafis are not trained to be blindly obedient, or to get involved in economic and fraternity activities.
Q: What is the relationship between the Muslim Brotherhood and Saudi Arabia?
A: Saudi Arabia prefers to deal with the regime than with the Brotherhood, because it needs Egypt as much as other Gulf states do.
Q: How effective are the Brotherhood operations abroad?
A: They are ineffective without the Americans, as they are the ones who instruct the EU to denounce or not to denounce the Brotherhood.
Q: What is the relationship between the Brotherhood and Qatar and Turkey?
A: Qatar is too small, the group is backed mainly by the Americans and the Zionists. As for Turkey, it is a puppet in the hands of the Americans.
Q: How will the conflict between the Brotherhood and the state end?
A: It will never end. Sentences will be issued and those who have not committed crimes will be released. Maybe 20 years from now a new generation will come, bringing reformist ideas for the group.
Q: Abdel Moneim Abul Fotouh says there is another revolution coming. What do you think?
A: Perhaps it is, in his dreams.
Q: Is he convinced of what he says?
A: I don't think so.
Q: Why does he say so then?
A: He likes to catch the attention of the youth with such statements.
Q: Are you in contact with him?
A: No, he is too arrogant.
Q: Have you thought of visiting any of the group leaders in prison?
A: No, although I have spent my best years with that group.
Q: What about the Gamal Heshmat and Yehia Hamid current outside Egypt?
A: It is rejected by the group.
Edited translation from Al-Masry Al-Youm
